Sources |
- 07 May 2020.
Sir John Second Laird of Seton formerly Seton aka Knight Templar
Born about 1370 in Seton, East Lothian, Scotlandmap
Son of William (Seton) de Seton and Janet (Fleming) Baroness of Seton
Brother of Alexander (Seton) First Lord Gordon and Janet (Seton) Dunbar
Husband of Catherine (Sinclair) Seton — married about 1392 [location unknown]
Father of William Seton, Christian (Seton) Leslie and Marion (Seton) Ogilvy
Died about 1434 in Seton, East Lothian, Scotlandmap
Profile manager: Jonathon Myers private message [send private message]
Last modified 20 August 2015.
This page has been accessed 1,112 times.
Categories: Battle of Homildon Hill | Clan Seton.
Preceded by
Sir William de Seton Lord of Seton
1410-1434 Succeeded by
George, 1st Lord Seton
Clan Seton tartan. John (Seton) Second Laird of Seton is a member of Clan Seton.
If you are interested in this profile,
please check out the Scottish Clans Project!
Contents
[hide]
1 Biography
1.1 Family
1.2 References
2 Sources
2.1 Acknowledgements
Biography
Sir John Seton of Seton was the son of Sir William de Seton and Janet Fleming, daughter of Fleming of Biggar.[1][2] There are a number of inaccuracies in Maitland's work[3] and that source is generally discounted unless specific mention is required.
Some sources, Sir Bruce Gordon Seton amongst them, mentions that, at the battle of Homildon Hill, in 1402, John "appears to have been taken prisoner with him (Sir William), and there is no record of the date of their release". The source material, Bain's Calendar of Documents, provides "le Sieur de Seton" which could imply a son but mentions William as being at the Tower; there is only mention of one Seton and not two. It could be presumed this to be William. Thus the capture of John at that battle is discounted. However, mentioned by Sir Bruce Gordon Seton and noticed in Scotichronicon is a notice of "Monsieur Johan de Seton, fils" amongst the casualties.[4] It might be supposed he returned to Scotland after the battle. Both his father and his father-in-law were taken captive at the battle.
He was, however, shortly after the return of his father about 1407, a hostage for the return of Archibald Douglas, fourth Earl of Douglas then at the Tower and who had led the Scottish force to defeat at Homildon Hill, losing an eye at the engagement.[5] While there he is described by Bower,[6] and noted in Balfour Paul, as "miles acerrimus, et Anglis, dum vixerat, infestus" - a stalwart soldier, and English, while living is aggressive. He was clearly of age at this point, and "of a leading family".
On 4 March 1410, Archibald Douglas, Earl of Douglas, gave his "dearest cousin" John a charter of the lands of Altham in the barony of Roxburgh.
On 24 March 1411, he received, from Robert Stewart, Duke of Albany, Governor of Scotland, a charter of confirmation of the baronies of Seton and Tranent, and the lands of Winchburgh; thus raising to Lord of Seton. His father must have been dead prior to this date and this closely approximates the date supposed in that Profile.
Although clearly not a poor man (although Sir Bruce Gordon Seton states he was; he could afford easily the 600 merks annual payment in ransom just 5 years later) his name appears in 1417 in the Account Book of the Teutonic Order, among a list of Scottish Nobility and gentry who owed them money. His account is included among bad debts.
On 28 November 1421, John de Annand resigned to his "reverend and superior Lord John Lord Settone" the lands of Mylles; and on 30th November 1423, Sir John granted to James of Dundas anew the lands of Dundas, on his father's resignation. These Dundas lands had been granted to Sir Alexander Seton by Robert Bruce in 1322 (although Sir Bruce Gordon Seton mentions the year as 1422 this is clearly a transcription error).
He was one of the Scottish Commissioners appointed to treat for the liberation of King James I., and he, or alternatively his son and heir, was afterwards nominated a hostage for the payment of the King's ransom, by the treaty of 4 December 1423. His estate at that point was estimated at 600 merks annually.
In March 1424 he was appointed one of the Conservators of the Seven Years Truce concluded at that time. King James I appointed him Master of the Household, an office which was held by several of his kinsmen and successors.
Maitland suggests that Sir John was sent to France in March 1436 in the train of the infant Princess Margaret but this is however incorrect.
He must have died prior to 1434 as the estates of Seton were in ward in 1434. Maitland, while also getting the date wrong, says he was buried in Seton Church "in the yle foundit be his moder". This is incorrect, as the "yle" was built by his wife, and for him after his death.
Family
He married, before 8 March 1393, Catherine de Sanct Clar, said to have been a daughter of Sir William Sinclair of Herdmanston. She survived him, and on 28 March 1450, had confirmation of a charter granted in her favour on 20 June 1449, by George, Lord of Seton and Langniddrie, Knight, grandson of her late husband, in which she is styled "Domina Katerine de Setoun relicte quondam Domini Johannis de Setoun". Catherine is noted as having added considerably to the Seton church and was a major benefactor of the church.
With Catherine he had three children:
Sir William Seton; he will inherit the titles.
Christian Seton; stated to have been a noble lady of the diocese of St. Andrews, in a dispensation from Pope Benedict XIII., 2 September 1416, to marry Norman Leslie (of Rothes), notwithstanding consanguinity of the fourth degree. Their son George was created first Earl of Rothes in March 1458.
Janet Seton; who was married to Robert Keith, Master of Keith who died in his father's life time. She survived him, leaving a daughter, Janet, who married Andrew Gray, second Lord Gray.
Child of Sir John Seton of Seton
Marian Seton [7]
References
↑ #S-1 Balfour Paul; Vol 8, page 573
↑ #S-2 Sir Bruce Gordon Seton; page 107
↑ #S-3 Sir Richard Maitland, page 31
↑ Scotichronicon, Goodall's ed., 1759, ii. 337 Note.
↑ Bain's; CaL of Docs., iv. 729, 736.
↑ Scotichronicon, Goodall's ed., 1759, ii. 337 n., citing Liber Cuprensis.
↑ Charles Mosley, editor, Burke's Peerage, Baronetage & Knightage, 107th edition, 3 volumes (Wilmington, Delaware, U.S.A.: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 2003), volume 1, page 599.
Sources
Source S-1 Balfour Paul. The Scots peerage : founded on Wood's ed. of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom. Edinburgh: Douglas, 1904. archive.org
Source S-2 Sir Bruce Gordon Seton. The House of Seton. A study of lost causes. Edinburgh: unknown, 1939. archive.org
Source S-3 Sir Richard Maitland. The History of the House of Seytoun to 1559 by Sir Richard Maitland of Lethington continued by Alexander Viscount Kingston. Glasgow: Hutchinson and Brrokman, 1829. archive.org
Acknowledgements
Thanks to Jonathon Dale Walter Myers for starting this profile. Click the Changes tab for the details of contributions by Jonathon Dale Walter and others.
MORE: FAMILY TREE & GENEALOGY TOOLS
Project Protected
DNA
No known carriers of John's Y-chromosome or his mother's mitochondrial DNA have taken yDNA or mtDNA tests.
Have you taken a DNA test for genealogy? If so, enter it here. If not, see our friends at Family Tree DNA.
Images: 1
View by popularity, date, or upload date.
Arms of Sir William de Seton
Arms of Sir William de Seton
+PopularityIncrease Popularity
E-CardSend Photo as E-Card
DetailsView or Edit Image Details
[location?] [date?] Comments: 1. WikiTree Popularity: 1.
Collaboration
Please sign the Honor Code to edit this profile and add images.
Private Messages: Send a private message to the Profile Manager. (Best when privacy is an issue.)
Public Comments: These will appear below and on Activity Feeds. (Best for messages specifically directed to those editing this profile. Limit 20 per day.)
Public Q&A: These will appear above and in the Genealogist-to-Genealogist (G2G) Forum. (Best for anything directed to the wider genealogy community.)
ASK QUESTION
Enter your public comment here.
Character limit is 800. Max. Left:
800
POST COMMENT
On June 4, 2015 at 17:07GMT Philip Smith wrote:
Warning – categories are not set up
Please review categories.
See: G2G_Question
[Thank Philip for this] [reply on Philip's page]
Research
For convenience here's a Google search form. If you find more info please add it to WikiTree so that this is a more complete, better organized resource for future genealogists.
'Seton, John'|'Second Laird of Seton, John'|John Seton ~genealogy
GO
Google Custom Search
Matches and Merges
Individuals should have one WikiTree profile that is shared by all family members. If you find matches for John Second Laird of Seton Find Matches (Seton-108) merge them. [more info] [more merging tools Merges for John Second Laird of Seton]
Pending Merges Help
None.
[initiate a merge]
Unmerged Matches Help
None.
[add a match]
Rejected Matches Help
None.
[reject a match]
John is 19 degrees from Kevin Bacon, 24 degrees from AJ Jacobs, 34 degrees from Gene Kelly, 21 degrees from Maureen O'Hara and 17 degrees from Queen Elizabeth II of the Commonwealth Realms on our single family tree. Check your connections or find your genealogical relationship with John.
- 30 Apr 2020.
Sir John Second Laird of Seton formerly Seton aka Knight Templar
Born about 1370 in Seton, East Lothian, Scotlandmap
Son of William (Seton) de Seton and Janet (Fleming) Baroness of Seton
Brother of Alexander (Seton) First Lord Gordon and Janet (Seton) Dunbar
Husband of Catherine (Sinclair) Seton — married about 1392 [location unknown]
Father of William Seton, Christian (Seton) Leslie and Marion (Seton) Ogilvy
Died about 1434 in Seton, East Lothian, Scotlandmap
Profile manager: Jonathon Myers private message [send private message]
Last modified 20 August 2015.
This page has been accessed 1,112 times.
Categories: Battle of Homildon Hill | Clan Seton.
Preceded by
Sir William de Seton Lord of Seton
1410-1434 Succeeded by
George, 1st Lord Seton
Clan Seton tartan. John (Seton) Second Laird of Seton is a member of Clan Seton.
If you are interested in this profile,
please check out the Scottish Clans Project!
Contents
[hide]
1 Biography
1.1 Family
1.2 References
2 Sources
2.1 Acknowledgements
Biography
Sir John Seton of Seton was the son of Sir William de Seton and Janet Fleming, daughter of Fleming of Biggar.[1][2] There are a number of inaccuracies in Maitland's work[3] and that source is generally discounted unless specific mention is required.
Some sources, Sir Bruce Gordon Seton amongst them, mentions that, at the battle of Homildon Hill, in 1402, John "appears to have been taken prisoner with him (Sir William), and there is no record of the date of their release". The source material, Bain's Calendar of Documents, provides "le Sieur de Seton" which could imply a son but mentions William as being at the Tower; there is only mention of one Seton and not two. It could be presumed this to be William. Thus the capture of John at that battle is discounted. However, mentioned by Sir Bruce Gordon Seton and noticed in Scotichronicon is a notice of "Monsieur Johan de Seton, fils" amongst the casualties.[4] It might be supposed he returned to Scotland after the battle. Both his father and his father-in-law were taken captive at the battle.
He was, however, shortly after the return of his father about 1407, a hostage for the return of Archibald Douglas, fourth Earl of Douglas then at the Tower and who had led the Scottish force to defeat at Homildon Hill, losing an eye at the engagement.[5] While there he is described by Bower,[6] and noted in Balfour Paul, as "miles acerrimus, et Anglis, dum vixerat, infestus" - a stalwart soldier, and English, while living is aggressive. He was clearly of age at this point, and "of a leading family".
On 4 March 1410, Archibald Douglas, Earl of Douglas, gave his "dearest cousin" John a charter of the lands of Altham in the barony of Roxburgh.
On 24 March 1411, he received, from Robert Stewart, Duke of Albany, Governor of Scotland, a charter of confirmation of the baronies of Seton and Tranent, and the lands of Winchburgh; thus raising to Lord of Seton. His father must have been dead prior to this date and this closely approximates the date supposed in that Profile.
Although clearly not a poor man (although Sir Bruce Gordon Seton states he was; he could afford easily the 600 merks annual payment in ransom just 5 years later) his name appears in 1417 in the Account Book of the Teutonic Order, among a list of Scottish Nobility and gentry who owed them money. His account is included among bad debts.
On 28 November 1421, John de Annand resigned to his "reverend and superior Lord John Lord Settone" the lands of Mylles; and on 30th November 1423, Sir John granted to James of Dundas anew the lands of Dundas, on his father's resignation. These Dundas lands had been granted to Sir Alexander Seton by Robert Bruce in 1322 (although Sir Bruce Gordon Seton mentions the year as 1422 this is clearly a transcription error).
He was one of the Scottish Commissioners appointed to treat for the liberation of King James I., and he, or alternatively his son and heir, was afterwards nominated a hostage for the payment of the King's ransom, by the treaty of 4 December 1423. His estate at that point was estimated at 600 merks annually.
In March 1424 he was appointed one of the Conservators of the Seven Years Truce concluded at that time. King James I appointed him Master of the Household, an office which was held by several of his kinsmen and successors.
Maitland suggests that Sir John was sent to France in March 1436 in the train of the infant Princess Margaret but this is however incorrect.
He must have died prior to 1434 as the estates of Seton were in ward in 1434. Maitland, while also getting the date wrong, says he was buried in Seton Church "in the yle foundit be his moder". This is incorrect, as the "yle" was built by his wife, and for him after his death.
Family
He married, before 8 March 1393, Catherine de Sanct Clar, said to have been a daughter of Sir William Sinclair of Herdmanston. She survived him, and on 28 March 1450, had confirmation of a charter granted in her favour on 20 June 1449, by George, Lord of Seton and Langniddrie, Knight, grandson of her late husband, in which she is styled "Domina Katerine de Setoun relicte quondam Domini Johannis de Setoun". Catherine is noted as having added considerably to the Seton church and was a major benefactor of the church.
With Catherine he had three children:
Sir William Seton; he will inherit the titles.
Christian Seton; stated to have been a noble lady of the diocese of St. Andrews, in a dispensation from Pope Benedict XIII., 2 September 1416, to marry Norman Leslie (of Rothes), notwithstanding consanguinity of the fourth degree. Their son George was created first Earl of Rothes in March 1458.
Janet Seton; who was married to Robert Keith, Master of Keith who died in his father's life time. She survived him, leaving a daughter, Janet, who married Andrew Gray, second Lord Gray.
Child of Sir John Seton of Seton
Marian Seton [7]
References
↑ #S-1 Balfour Paul; Vol 8, page 573
↑ #S-2 Sir Bruce Gordon Seton; page 107
↑ #S-3 Sir Richard Maitland, page 31
↑ Scotichronicon, Goodall's ed., 1759, ii. 337 Note.
↑ Bain's; CaL of Docs., iv. 729, 736.
↑ Scotichronicon, Goodall's ed., 1759, ii. 337 n., citing Liber Cuprensis.
↑ Charles Mosley, editor, Burke's Peerage, Baronetage & Knightage, 107th edition, 3 volumes (Wilmington, Delaware, U.S.A.: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 2003), volume 1, page 599.
Sources
Source S-1 Balfour Paul. The Scots peerage : founded on Wood's ed. of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom. Edinburgh: Douglas, 1904. archive.org
Source S-2 Sir Bruce Gordon Seton. The House of Seton. A study of lost causes. Edinburgh: unknown, 1939. archive.org
Source S-3 Sir Richard Maitland. The History of the House of Seytoun to 1559 by Sir Richard Maitland of Lethington continued by Alexander Viscount Kingston. Glasgow: Hutchinson and Brrokman, 1829. archive.org
Acknowledgements
Thanks to Jonathon Dale Walter Myers for starting this profile. Click the Changes tab for the details of contributions by Jonathon Dale Walter and others.
MORE: FAMILY TREE & GENEALOGY TOOLS
Project Protected
DNA
No known carriers of John's Y-chromosome or his mother's mitochondrial DNA have taken yDNA or mtDNA tests.
Have you taken a DNA test for genealogy? If so, enter it here. If not, see our friends at Family Tree DNA.
Images: 1
View by popularity, date, or upload date.
Arms of Sir William de Seton
Arms of Sir William de Seton
+PopularityIncrease Popularity
E-CardSend Photo as E-Card
DetailsView or Edit Image Details
[location?] [date?] Comments: 1. WikiTree Popularity: 1.
Collaboration
Please sign the Honor Code to edit this profile and add images.
Private Messages: Send a private message to the Profile Manager. (Best when privacy is an issue.)
Public Comments: These will appear below and on Activity Feeds. (Best for messages specifically directed to those editing this profile. Limit 20 per day.)
Public Q&A: These will appear above and in the Genealogist-to-Genealogist (G2G) Forum. (Best for anything directed to the wider genealogy community.)
ASK QUESTION
Enter your public comment here.
Character limit is 800. Max. Left:
800
POST COMMENT
On June 4, 2015 at 17:07GMT Philip Smith wrote:
Warning – categories are not set up
Please review categories.
See: G2G_Question
[Thank Philip for this] [reply on Philip's page]
Research
For convenience here's a Google search form. If you find more info please add it to WikiTree so that this is a more complete, better organized resource for future genealogists.
'Seton, John'|'Second Laird of Seton, John'|John Seton ~genealogy
GO
Google Custom Search
Matches and Merges
Individuals should have one WikiTree profile that is shared by all family members. If you find matches for John Second Laird of Seton Find Matches (Seton-108) merge them. [more info] [more merging tools Merges for John Second Laird of Seton]
Pending Merges Help
None.
[initiate a merge]
Unmerged Matches Help
None.
[add a match]
Rejected Matches Help
None.
[reject a match]
John is 19 degrees from Kevin Bacon, 24 degrees from AJ Jacobs, 34 degrees from Gene Kelly, 21 degrees from Maureen O'Hara and 17 degrees from Queen Elizabeth II of the Commonwealth Realms on our single family tree. Check your connections or find your genealogical relationship with John.
|